You had a particular interest in reading comic books and Wu Xia(Martial Arts) novels when you were young. What about these stories that fascinate you?
When I was in the third grade, I came across some comic books in a bookstore and I was instantly hooked. I mostly read Wu Xia comics in those days. The characters in the comics can jump onto buildings and run on rooftops. And when they clash swords, light rays would burst out. I thought, whoa, their world looked totally different from ours. I thought those books were really interesting, and I began to mimic the lines in the comic books. The story wasn’t that important to me, I simply wanted to recreate figures (similar to those in the comic books).
How did the comic books influence your work?
It’s a way of mixing my own world with that in the comic books. When I was in the fifth grade, I would go home after reading comic books and create my own stories in comic book layouts, with four, six or eight panels per page. My comic book was a big hit in my class, my friends fought to their hands on my books.
Your paintings consist of a lot of visual elements that are rooted in Taiwan's folklore, such as characters that are similar to the deities in local temples. What about these elements that attract you and make you incorporate them in your work?
The influence (of folklore) can be traced back to my childhood home. I used to live in Houhong Borough, in Kaohsiung City’s Gangshan District. It was a small village. There was a temple right in front of my yard where religious gatherings were often held. I remember watching glove puppetry and shadow plays and seeing different characters wobbling back and forth on stage. I was quite young at the time, and I remember thinking, who are they? This looks so much fun.
There were many brush paintings on the walls inside the temple. I sometimes ran into artists who touched up those paintings, and I was really impressed with their skills. The stories in the glove puppetry were mostly about historical events. These all had an impact on my artistic creations later on. I keep coming back to folk arts to seek inspiration.
You came across the work of Van Gogh, Gauguin and Cézanne for the first time when you were in high school. What was your first impression of their work?
When I was in the twelfth grade, one of my classmates brought three painting albums to school, and we were in awe as we took turns to read them. At the time, we had only seen text books for art classes. We had never seen other types of painting since the southern regions of Taiwan were really underdeveloped and it was impossible for anyone to have a career as a painter. When I first laid eyes on those paintings, I thought, whoa, someone could actually paint in their own distinct styles instead of just imitating a certain example. All we did in art classes at the time was imitation. We painted landscapes and water in a traditional manner.
The main trend at the time was traditional Chinese paintings. We imitated the examples in “The Manual of the Mustard Seed Garden”, where a tree needs to be painted like the Chinese character “芥(Jie)”, and there was a certain way of painting rocks as well. However, when I saw the impressionist paintings, I felt that I could paint however I want, in my own ways. Some of the paintings in those albums left a profound impression on me, such as Van Gogh’s paintings. He used clear lines instead of large color palettes to make his paintings. I was impressed that someone could express themselves in such a manner.
Your early artistic career was rife with uncertainties. After moving from Kaohsiung to Taipei, you had to do some odd jobs to stay afloat. How did this experience influence your creative journey later on?
I spent about 10 years in Taipei. During that period, I felt that I absorbed lots of new knowledge. To be frank about it, I just played around a lot. It was my way of life, and living life was more important than making money. So I spent most of my time riding a motorcycle to Yangming Mountain, reading at local bookstores and watching movies at discount theatres. My main goal was to learn and absorb as much new information as possible. I read books, I saw paintings, I learned from everything that was new to me, that’s how I spent that 10 years, I saw it as having fun. Maybe others would say that I simply had no ambition. (Laughs)
Most of your paintings don’t follow the traditions rules of perspective. The sizes of the objects don’t change according to their distance, the angles of walls as and the proportions of human subjects and their surroundings don’t appear realistic. Do you naturally gravitate towards such a style, or are you intentionally trying to create a sense of absurdity?
My first award-winning painting was “Chinese Style”. And as I made more and more paintings, I began to get a feeling for the multi-point perspective. My childhood house in Houhong Borough was a Siheyuan, a traditional rectangular Chinese style courtyard. I often climbed onto the roof, and when looking at the entire yard from above, it looks similar to a painting in a multi-point perspective. I feel that the environment somehow shapes an artist’s consciousness. And an artist develops different techniques over the years, the artworks would in turn be connected to the surroundings.
Some of your most acclaimed paintings, including the award-winning “Chinese Style”, and your later paintings, such as “Never Doubting after the Age of Forty” and “One Day of an Artist”, were all made on extremely wide canvas. Why did you specifically choose this kind of aspect ratio?
I saw a lot of traditional Chinese scroll paintings, such as the one about the Great Wall in the National Palace Museum. I later on thought that, since my paintings share some similarities with comic books, painting on long scrolls would allow me to flesh out an entire story on just one piece of paper. For instance, many comics are shown in a series, as episode one, two, three, and so on. So I paint the entire story on a single piece of scroll paper and it resembles the episodic format of comic books. It is as if I draw episode one, two, three, and go from there.
These scroll paintings contain a particular rich set of visual elements. We often see a few dozen different characters, scenes and furnishings. How do you organize these elements? Do you randomly place them as you paint, or did you plan their placement ahead of time in an organized manner?
When I painted “Never Doubting after the Age of Forty”, the setting was my old place on Shiquan road, in Kaohsiung City. And a dandy is placed right in the middle of the frame. Most of the moments shown on canvas are from my own life. For instance, I often climbed Banping Mountain when I lived in Kaohsiung, so I painted the mountain in the frame. I also painted the time when a burglar broke into my home. The entire painting is like a bowl of mixed fruit juice, I simply threw the events of my past and current life into a blender, mixed them up, and poured it onto paper. This is how I make most of my paintings. I take inspirations from life and what’s currently going on, and I paint whatever I think about.
You applied different painting techniques within the same painting. Some figures are painted in a realistic manner, whereas others appear to be abstract. Some areas are painted in black and white, whereas others show vibrant colors. Did you naturally incorporate different techniques in the painting?
Yes. I tend to go with the flow, and not pressure myself too much. I thought, well, I could use this technique, I can also add that technique in the painting. I think this makes my paintings different from others’. I want to express what comes natural to me.
The “dandy” character is a mainstay of your paintings. Where does he come from?
About this character … I often saw a character like him when I watched local theatre and glove puppetry during my younger days. The character often appeared nonchalant, waving a fan and enjoying his day. I felt that I like his lifestyle quite a lot. My earliest version of the “dandy” doesn’t look like the current iteration. I experimented with different variations in my paintings, and make changes along the way. Being a “dandy” means he gets to live a rather epicurean life. I also drew him naked in some paintings, simply because I imagine he could act this way some time. In other paintings, he appears to read books or lollygag around while holding an umbrella.
Is such an unrestrained way of living a projection of your ideals?
(Laughs) It could be. I tend to be unrestrained. And because I’m not a classically trained artist, I get to do whatever I want to do. My paintings are different from traditional ones because I get to express and paint in whichever ways I want to, which is different compared to someone who comes from an art program.
Your paintings are filled with elements that break traditional rules: all paintings, such as “Ming Der New Village”, don’t follow the three-point perspective, and the subject in the “Dandy” series are all disproportionately sized. Are you intentionally trying to create a sense of absurdity?
Artworks are rooted in real-life experiences, and my life is shaped by my environment. Let’s take the painting “The Dandy Goes for an Outing” (1992) as an example: the entire world appears up-side-down because I felt stuck halfway through the painting process and didn’t know how to continue. So, I left the painting unfinished for a while. And out of the blue, I turned the canvas up-side-down and found a new and interesting angle. After this experiment, I felt that could walk a different path and there’s no need to conform to conventions. (Making the up-side-down painting) was an important little experience.
Outside of traditional canvases, you often choose very different media -- some of your paintings are made on paper pulp and chopped wood, some are even painted on scavenged materials. Why are you media so varied?
In the early days of my career, certain artists came to my studio and probably copied some of the ideas in my paintings. To prevent this from happening again, I deliberately picked other media to paint on. I began gathering materials from recycling factories and folk art stores. I then thought about what I can do with what I had. Then I realized that I could make paintings on non-conventional media, such as paper pulp.
I can be considered a senior artist at my age. (Laughs) If I were to change the way I paint, I need to take into consideration how it would affect sales. Most painters tend to make the same type of paintings over and over, they don’t dare to make drastic changes. I wanted to try other media, to try and paint on the stuff I gathered from the recycling factory and fold art store. The act is quite similar to finding treasure among trash. I think these new experiments breathe new life into my creativity. This is what I felt after the experiments. The key is not being limited. And it’s really fun to turn different materials, including trash, into artworks.
The surface of paper pulp and chopped wood tend to be very uneven and grainy. How does this influence your work?
Each piece is made by covering the metal frame with paper pulp. I first gauge the shape of the frame and think about how I can shape the paper pulp to cover the metal structure. In the process, I feel like a third party in a different universe, witnessing the two different media having a conversation.
The southern region of Taiwan has been a source of inspiration for your work. You grew up in the south, and much of your media is gathered in the south, and you returned to settle in the south after spending years in Taipei, in northern Taiwan. You once even said that “I love Taiwan and love southern Taiwan even more” at your exhibition. What is it about southern Taiwan that attracts you so much?
I came back because I couldn’t make it in the north. (Laughs) It’s actually because the environment and the pace of life here in the south is more relaxed. I said I loved southern Taiwan because I once lived in Mingde Village in Kaohsiung, and the quality of life was really great, much better than the life I had afterwards. I live in the south and I made lots of work based on local culture, such as the painting “Ming Der New Village” and “I Love Southern Taiwan”.
The lifestyle in southern Taiwan tends to be nonchalant, and the work I made is like this as well. The environment and life have become the main source of inspiration for me.
It has been 40 years since you won your first award. How has your work evolved during this time? And are you still following your inspiration naturally?
Yes, I try to adhere to a Zen-like attitude, much like a monk would. I’m trying to understand what others are thinking without a conversation. I’m trying to speak less since I’m not good at talking. At this stage of my life, I am looking to understand this world through thoughts and feelings. This is what I’d like to achieve at this stage of my life.
